Lore is the subject of many a conversation in the world of BattleLore.
To some – commoners, skeptics and fools – it is nothing more than myth or legend; yet to others – men of substance, strength and wisdom – it is a source of power and intrigue.
In terms of game play, Lore is the gateway to legendary actions on (and off) the battlefield.
Lore tokens, gathered in a common pool at the start of any Lore adventure, act as the currency that fuels the actions of the players’ legendary characters, the Lore Masters.
Be they a man of deep faith, a wizard of legend, a bold fighter or a sneaky rogue, these (off the map) advisors all rely on the power of their Lore cards to help win the day when armies clash on the battlefield.
An aspiring Wizard…
But let’s take a closer look at how a budding level 1 Wizard might help you.
At the start of the Lore adventure in which you’ve decided to invite this Wizard to your side, you draw a single Lore token from the Lore pool, and place it into a goblet reserved to that effect, to form your initial Lore reserve.
You also receive four random Lore cards, drawn from the Wizards’ Lore deck. From among those, you must choose one – your aspiring Wizard’s starting spell. The remaining spell cards are then be shuffled back into a common deck, and placed next to the Command cards, within easy reach of both players.
An ambitious (and expensive) spell !
Your starting spell’s card will have a Name, a Power Cost (which must be paid, in Lore tokens, when the spell is cast), a Phase of Play (which dictates when during a game turn this particular spell may be cast), a Target (the victim – or beneficiary, sometimes – of the spell) and an Effect, which describes the spell’s precise action.
This Lore card also displays a Lore Master Class symbol, in this case the Wizard’s Hand.
Finally, you also receive a War Council sheet, which is placed Wizard’s side face up; in BattleLore, your first introduction to the Lore Masters is always via a Wizard!
The game then proceeds, like a normal Medieval adventure, but with the following modifications:
- Once per turn, you may cast a spell, by playing the corresponding Lore card and paying its Power cost out of the Lore tokens currently in your reserve.
- At the end of your game turn, after drawing your Command card, you may also do one, and only one, of the following:
- Draw 2 Lore cards from the common deck, select 1 and discard the other;
- Draw 1 Lore card from the common deck and 1 Lore token from the common Lore pool;
- Draw 2 Lore tokens from the common Lore pool, to place in your Lore reserve.
The Lore Masters
In addition to the budding wizard, you can bring to your side a whole fellowship of Lore Masters of varying origins and talents. Those Lore Masters cover all four main fantasy archetypes. In addition to the Wizard already introduced, these are:
The Cleric
A shepherd to his troops, who he’s known to soothe, protect and heal, this man of faith can also wield a heavenly wrath upon his enemies…
The Warrior
A master tactician who never seems to sleep, the Warrior may lack a sense of humor, but his sheer grit and determination more than compensate…
The Rogue
Cunning and nimble, the Rogue is a jack-of-all-trades. His talent lies in his remarkable resourcefulness and ability to disrupt the enemy’s best laid plans…
A Rogue’s back-handed blow!
Last, not least, and unique to BattleLore, but central to the game, is…
The Commander
He differs from his fellow Lore Masters in that he does not play Lore cards, but rather, dictates the size of your hand of Command cards.
Together, these men of power often assemble to congregate and conspire in powerful War Councils, which we will discuss in our next entry!
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So if you draw from the common Lore deck during the game, you can use any ability you draw (wizard, cleric, warrior, or rogue)?
Also, on the rogue card displayed above, what is considered a “bonus strike”?
The bonus strikes were discussed earlier. For example, warrior units in a melee got one Bonus Strike for every Shield they rolled.
Ass far as the Lore cards, it sounds like you can only play a rogue card if you have the Rogue counselor. I am not sure how you get thise counselors as it sound you only start the game with the Wizard. Maybe pulling a Rogue card allows you to recruit a rogue? Maybe getting to the next level allows you to select another counselor? How do you get to another level? Each banner you collect?
This of this all sounding really, really cool! Is it the end of November yet? lol
Say, doesn’t the band Greenday have a song called:
“Wake Me Up when November Ends.” lol
The Wizard War Council sheet suggests that the common Lore deck only consist of Wizard cards. The question is of course how you go from the Wizard to the full counsil (there are four empty chairs!). Another question that may be related, is how our lowly first level Wizard becomes a higher level character. I suspect that at some point you “gain” a level, and that you can decide to either invest it in one of your existing council member (you Wizard becomes level 2), or that you attract a new level 1 council member.
All good questions, which will be answered in our next entry
It sounded like there was a special Lore deck for each class: Wizard, Cleric, Rogue, and Warrior. You get to draw from the deck for the type of Lore Master you have on your side.
It appears as though there are 15 lore cards for each of the 4 lore masters, for a total of 60 lore cards. The commander does not have lore cards since he increases the size of you command cards in your hand. I wonder if we just filter out the cards for who we are playing with at the time? If each side is able to play with a different lore master, and there is a common deck to pull from, then there is a chance you could get a card you have no use for since you may not have that lore master at the time. You would basically have a card that only your opponent could use.
As always, looks great!
I like how the planning map on the table is a Battlelore game board…clever!
If you read the wording on the War Council, it says to put cards 1 through 15 in the Lore deck. So it appears that Only the cards that are appropriate for you council are in the Lore deck.
I would assume we only have one Lore deck and if you can’t use the card, you discard it or hang on to it until you can use it. (Looks like a lot of opportunity to pull 2 cards but only choose one).
Ahhh…now I get it. At first I thought that this was C+C Ancients re-dressed (and nicely re-dressed) for non historical gamers. But, the Lore Cards add a whole other dimension. They would appear to be a highly effective way of adding individual flavour and personality to the game without slowing the mechanics. My impression is that the ‘Lore Masters can develop from game to game along with their armies – allowing for campaigns to flow nicely (right?)
I’ve been looking for a campaign mechanism like this to handle a ‘fantasy / medieval’ Samurai campaign game – this is it. Cant wait.
Now I have to wait to…
1 Pre Order
2 Read the next blog
3 Actually hold a copy of the game in my trembling hands
This looks better and better each time something esle is added to the blog.
I’m feeling really good that I called my site ‘BattleloreMaster.com’ right about now. Not a bad guess …
That cleric’s a nasty-looking piece of work – check out the snaggletooth. A bit of orc blood methinks?
Seeing the portal card actually brings up a question I would have about battles. Are there rules for flanking in battlelore? Being able to teleport behind enemy lines and attack from the rear sounds very audacious.
Sorry to make three posts in a row, but I was thinking how in future expansions it would be nice to have different War Council sheet and Lore Master illustrations – for example, for an Orc army, an Orc priest instead of cleric, a rough tent (or hole in the ground) with a few severed heads in the corner, animal skins etc for the orc War Council. All giving your army a more customised look.
Yeah, that would work!! Maybe if the June & Oct. 07 expansions are race armies-Orc/Elf/undead, etc, they could do that!? And Lore, Terrain & character cards tailored/ flavored for individual races. Along with unique unit figures_ Elf bow, war machines,big bad orcs,,, oh yeah!
I was actually thinking differently for Lore Master expansions, that it might be nice to actually increase the size of the Lore Master deck and add additional Lore Masters (additional imagery is nice, but doesn’t really add much to the game, IMO).
Of course, this only applies if they (a) think of additional cards or characters that would be both beneficial and different, and (b) wouldn’t screw up the balance/timing of the deck,
Another interesting thing to note is that it appears that the War Council sheet image above is missing the bottom 1/3 from the previous “Game Setup” picture that has floated around. Guessing we’ll learn about what the bottom is next time (and what the green, blue, and red bars on there have to do with the green/blue/red units).
The blog mentions “Wizard side up”. It seems to me that the “Game Setup” pictures shows the other side, so maybe there are scenarios with just the wizards, and others with a full council.
At first I thought it would be just a Memoir clone, which is fine by itself but wouldn’t tempt me to spend my money, but now I see where this is going…
Count me in …
Now I’m looking at it the otherway around. What will this all bring to Memoir? What would Lore translate into. Morale is obvious. A Commander or specialist ? Sure
Another speculation: the game comes with 24 lore master tokens. Assuming there are two of each type, there are still 14 unaccounted for. Are they higher level versions of original five?
Ugh. Did you guys *have* to go with basically ripping off the stereotypical D&D classes? These things have been done absolutely to death, to the point that they are oppressively generic. A Rogue with backstab and lots of skills? That’s novel. For heaven’s sake, at least change the names! How about a Scout, Ranger, or Assassin instead?
I like the sound of the actual game mechanics. But you could have given the game more flavor for me personally just by giving them different names, perhaps a Champion, Sorceror, Healer, or something.
@ Chris:
Half the names you suggested above are ALSO D&D classes (Ranger, Assassin, Sorceror). LOL.
I’d suggest that pretty much any medieval fantasy has these four ‘base’ archetypes – warrior, rogue, wizard and priest. It goes with the territory, IMO>
You know,
As absolutely fired up for this game as I am, I have to agree with Chris.
Warrior, Wizard, Cleric, and Rogue are getting tired and scream of D&D. I accepted it at first because, as Chris and Ryan both state, they are expected staples. But… they shouldn’t be. I think the recent generation of games has begun to break away from this mold. (As an aside, with the recent explosion of new D&D base classes that blur the lines, I think D&D 4e will step away from the stereotype it perpetuated, as well.)
At the very least, non-D&D core class names would be a decent step in separation: Priest instaed of Cleric and Spy instead of Rogue.
Granted, we do want a fantasy C&C game…but that doesn’t mean it has to portray D&D fantasy.
Just to say it, Priest and Cleric are exactly the same. Just a different way to say the same thing.
2nd Edition D&D called the Cleric by the name Priest.
Generic terms are easiest for people to understand. Everyone is familiar with those names, therefore the average person can easily understand the difference between a Warrior and Wizard.
Rogue/Spy/Scout/Ranger – person who sneaks around, usually to gather intelligence on the enemy, to steal something of importance, or to locate something
Wizard/Sorcerer – user of magic, typically offensive in nature
Cleric/Priest/Clergy/Bishop/Healer – user of magic, typically to heal and protect instead of attack
Warrior/Fighter/Soldier/Knight/Champion – physical combatant, typically using a melee weapon or ranged weapon, and sometimes mounted
In medieval times and wars, people were labeled as the following:
Peasents/Serfs
Conscripts – peasents given weapons by a lord
Soldiers/Warriors
Knights
Nobles/Lords/Aristocracy
Clerics/Priests/Bishops/Monks
Wizards(men)/witches(women) – people who could do something others couldn’t figure out or understand, which was quickly called “magic”
Bards – travelling storytellers and mucisians
Kings/Queens
Rogues/Thugs/Highwaymen/Assassins
Scouts/Rangers/Spies
Scribes – people who knew how to read and write and were being paid because of it
In any medieval theme you are going to hear those names regularly.
First you all complain because some figures are left handed instead of right handed. Now you complain about names.
Can’t please everyone; so either live with what you get, or don’t get it. It is that simple.
Besides, who says you have to call them by their names when you play the game at your own homes. Call them whatever you want.
I must admit ‘Spy’ does seem a bit more appropriate for the battlefield melieu.
Eagraa…
Fair enough points. I prefer to think I’m offering ‘constructive criticism’ versus complaining. You are right…I will love the game and can live with the lore masters’ names. Personally, I would prefer names/titles/ranks that are a little more ‘mature’ (for lack of a better term), but I fully realize that smacks of hypocrisy when talking about wizards and goblins…and I’m fine with that. But others may say: “Hmmm…wizards, warriors, rogues and clerics…it’s a D&D boardgame.” And that will be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on perspective.
Steve B,
Can you think of any terms/ranks/names/titles that portray the same image to a large number of people?
If anyone is going to give constructive critism, or complain, you all should offer a good alternative. Just saying, “I like/dislike (whatever),” isn’t going to change anything.
There are many people who have not heard of D&D, or have heard of it but don’t know much about it.
Fantasy has been done almost to death with board, computer/video, and RPG games, just as World War 2 has been almost done to death for computer, board, and video games. You run out of names and titles at that point, and it all begins to sound the same.
Personally, I look at the mechanics of a game, and put more weight in that then in eye/ear candy.
Besides, according to one of the entries, Lore is not always used, only during Lore games. Regular Medieval games don’t use Lore, therefore only the Commander is important in the War Council.
D&D brought fantasy gaming to the mainstream. Don’t be surprised if many things sound the same or similar. Everyone needs to understand that.
Okay, the Sage in training is done talking for now.
Eagraa,
I think we agree, but just have different ways of saying the same thing. I did offer alternatives, but those alternatives were also shown to be D&D classes…just not as iconic. So I won’t belabor the issue.
More to the root of the issue, it’s probably the inclusion of the cleric that mostly creates the perceived D&D ties.
The tale of King Arthur had warriors, wizards, and to some extent rogues, but not clerics. Same with Tolkien…no clerics. Also Elric, Lankhmar, and later Shannara, Thomas Covenant, and current Song of Ice and Fire, I just don’t see the clerics. I think (and I may be wrong) that D&D was the driver behind separating divine and arcane magic in a same-only-different-yet-balanced-stereotype framework. I guess I don’t view the cleric as a true staple of the genre…but it has become a staple of the gaming sub-genre. And then when lumped in with wizard, warrior, rogue, it looks like D&D. Most of this has nothing to do with Battlelore the game…it’s just part of realizing in my old age how D&D shaped my view of fantasy when in actuality D&D is a very unique beast that ironically has started to shape fantasy.
Will it detract from my enjoyment of the game? Absolutely not. Is it an observation I felt worthy of comment? Yes.
Eric is a big D&D fan (as noted on both of the podcasts I have listened to on Battle Lore), and therefore D&D had a major influence on bringing Battle Lore to life. Eric has stated that this is the game he wishes he had 20 years ago when he was playing D&D, so he could play out large battles. Also, Eric’s first business venture, of sorts, was selling photocopied D&D modules of his own design to local hobby shops.
I love the fact that the games uses these names, and has a D&D feel. Also, Dave Arneson (one of the co-creators of D&D with Gary Gygax) is one of the playtesters of Battle Lore, and I am sure has helped in the development of the game.
Sit back and enjoy. All word games aside this is shaping up to be one heck of a game.
Salient points asiskfan, I forgot about the info in those interviews.
I love old D&D names… I think that using them today when every fantasy rpg and boardgame try strange naming and setting is good to have something “classic”. I think the same about the graphic design of the box and the pieces: it’s not Rackham…it’s DOW style. And i like it a lot! :- )
It appears Eagraa does not like to read any personal opinions or comments that may be perceived as being negative to BattleLore. A pity, because personally, I find it interesting to see what people either ‘like’ or ‘dislike’ about what has so far been revealed. BattleLore will, in a few months, have numerous reviews written about it, some favourable and I’m sure some not so favourable.
Just look at Memoir ’44. Lots of people love it but there are those that don’t. Accept it. I rate M’44 as a 10 on BoardGameGeek but there are things that I believe could have been improved. I’m not too fond of the German infantry and artillery scupts for example. Minor thing, but had I had the opportunity to provide that feedback to DOW in the production phase I would have done so.
I understand some people like Eagraa may see these comments and opinions as an attack on BattleLore and want to rush to its defence. I don’t see any comments on this blog that are blatantly negative towards BattleLore just for the sake of it. I see a lot of very excited gamers who can’t wait to get their hands on a copy of this game and want to voice their opinions on what they’ve seen so far. Excellent free feedback for Days of Wonder.
Keep it up I say
Nit picking is what bothers me. Don’t fret the small stuff.
Until we have the game – nitpicking is all we got! Bring out the rulebook, Eric, so we can debate the big stuff.
When is the rulebook going to be posted? Will it be posted before the actual release of the game?
I think Essen starts on the 19th. Let the demos begin!
It should be posted before the release of the game. They did that for Cleopatra and Pacific Theater. I believe they mentioned they would continue with that tradtion.
Eric,
I would like to be volunteer to do demos for BattleLore in Portugal. What i need to do?
I think I read/heard somewhere they were going to release a condensed version of the rules online – not the 80 page rulebook that will be in the game box. Can anyone confirm?
Yes, I can confirm. We are not planning to release the entire book online. It is neither practical, nor furthering our plans for the product line.
Besides, we need to keep some elements of surprise for when people open the game they will have purchased
.
What we will release (both online and in print, free of charge,through retailers) is the BattleLore Primer, a 12 page document that sheds a bit more light on the game and its contents. It should go live by Essen.
Well Essen starts on the 19th, so we do not have too much longer to wait.
True. But we’ll still find a way to post a couple more entries before then (and some long after, of course).
I really like where Battlelore is heading.
As for the “constructive criticism on names”—just think: bike shed.
Well, after reviewing the material online for this game, I couldn’t be more disappointed. I was looking forward to the next big epic game from DoW, and instead, what do I find? Memoir ’44 in Fantsasyland.
It doesn’t matter to me that this Lore business effects changes to the system– fundamentally, this is Memoir ’44. Same board, same changeable map layout, same card holders, same “activate one unit in center, left, right” etc. The theme is different, but that’s pretty much it.
The miniatures aren’t even painted. I may have purchased it, even at a more expensive price, if the minis had been already painted instead of the same, dull grey.
But no… just Memoir ’44 all over.
Please make your next game fresh and original.
Any chance of having heros, magical weapons, and quests in this game, or is it strictly an army battling army game? If the idea is to create a fantasy game series, of which this game is the foundation, having heroes, magical weapons, quests, and the like seems to me to be almost required. They are such staples of fantasy literature and many other fantasy games. Why not have hero party vs hero party or monsters adventures, with the cards controlling individual heroes or monsters rather than units of warriors?
The Lore Masters seems to abstract the heroic tradition in fantasy a bit too much. A War Council is great, but having legendary warriors on the ground, in the fray, leading quests, fighting monsters, and so on would be much more cool and exciting.
Just a reply to Gamer888′s comment above for anyone reading through the old messages who might be concerned about this being just a fantasy version of Memoir 44. I am a current M44 player and I have all the expansions and so a fair investment in the game and so was also _very_ sceptical about whether this game would be different enough to warrant buying it, especially as it’s £50 in the UK and I also have (or can get hold of) plenty of fantasy wargames. After reading the whole blog and comments, the primer and looking on the boards here and at http://www.boardgamegeek.com I have changed my mind and put in my pre-order. =8)
The feel of this game does look quite different to M44. This looks to be a little more complex than M44 as units benefit more from proper cohesion and maneuvering plus there’s lore magic, etc. I think of it as similar to M44 in that it’s a fairly lightweight skirmish/wargame, but there are different tactical factors/styles to take into account.
Plus it’s from DoW so it you can pretty much guarantee that it will be well produced and enjoyable (on the basis of all their games I’ve played so far).
_But_, saying that, it might not be different enough for you, or you might already have a game that fills this niche, so evaluate it for yourself – but give it a fighting chance or at least try and get in at an FLGS demo or play someone else’s copy.