The Odds of Battle
Equally disconcerting thoughts might come from the realization that all combat is resolved through the simple roll of some mere Battle dice; and (for Memoir ‘44 veterans, at least), the realization that in BattleLore these dice feature the very same odds of scoring a hit, regardless of a unit’s type and banner color!
While this is indeed the case, there is more to it than meets the eye:
- The number of dice rolled varies per the unit’s troop and weapon type. As has been discussed by some in the commentaries, a unit’s Attack capabilities vary greatly as a result - the odds of scoring at least one hit against your target (i.e. rolling a colored helmet matching your target’s banner color) follows the binomial distribution. With a single die rolled, it’s only 1 chance out of 6, or 16.67%; but with two, it almost doubles to 30.56%; with three, it climbs to 42.13% and with four or more, it will exceed 50%.
- The Bonus Strike side of the die impacts the odds of scoring a hit, too. If the weapon you use allows for the Bonus Strike side of the die to score a hit, your odds of hitting your target with a single die instantly double up (to 2 out of 6, or 33.33%). Things get even better as you roll more dice, with two dice now scoring a hit 55.56% of the time, etc…
- Just like the Bonus Strike side of the die, the Lore side can similarly modulate the odds of hitting a target. So a weapon that would score hits on Bonus Strikes and Lore rolled (say a magical Long Sword, for instance) would now hit targets 3 times out of 6, or 50% of the time on a single die roll.
As the above shows, even without representing different helmet colors a varying number of times on the side of the dice, the Battle dice can exhibit a great deal of flexibility in modeling the desired odds of hitting a target.
But what of Defense?
But, as some observant Memoir ‘44 players volunteered in the commentaries of an earlier thread, what of the defensive capabilities of different troop types: Aren’t they all the same?
Well, not quite. While it is indeed equally easy to roll a red helmet, to score a hit against a Red Banner unit, and to roll a green helmet to hit a Green unit, the implications of doing so are quite different.
This is because in BattleLore, units primarily fight in Melee, i.e. against adjacent units. (There are ranged weapons, firing at more than 1 hex, such as the Common Bow previously introduced, but their power - i.e. the number of dice they roll - is usually limited.)
And Melees, in BattleLore, open the door to a raft of new benefits (and dangers!), known as the battle’s Follow-on Actions.
Follow-on Actions
- In Melee, a unit that pushes an opponent back (destroying it outright, by wiping all its remaining figures out, or forcing it to retreat one or more hex through the roll of some Retreat flags) can Gain Ground and move into that now freshly unoccupied space.
- Even better, if the attacking unit is a mounted unit that pushes its enemy back, it may initiate a Pursuit, moving one additional space beyond the just freed-up one, and gain a Bonus Melee Attack, against the same hapless target or any other adjacent one.
On the other hand, Melees are inherently bloody affairs, in which the all important Retreat flag of the die comes into play.
In BattleLore, a unit that has the power to ignore a Flag rolled against it in combat is said to be Bold, and all Bold units have the ability to Battle back!
This means that, instead of relying on having the appropriate Command card(s) in hand to engage the enemy back on the same spot during your next turn, if your units are Bold, they will hit right back, during your opponent’s turn, if he dares to engage you in Melee!
As a result, a unit’s offensive power (a Red Banner unit’s 4 Battle dice to a Green Banner’s 2, for instance) becomes a powerful defensive deterrent, in many situations.
The question simply becomes one of boosting (or keeping) one’s Morale… which will be the subject of our next entry!
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September 29th, 2006 at 3:22 pm
The first comment is mine… MUAHAHA! I am interested to see what other effects the attacks have, including lore!
September 29th, 2006 at 3:41 pm
Hopefully we can get off the comparisons to memoir 44 by this point. So far, shaping up to be very similar to Ancients! New bit of info that seems to be picked up is that the Lore face of the dice also can cause a hit with magical weapons. Good to know!!
September 29th, 2006 at 5:07 pm
Well,
That certainly answered some of my questions–thanks!
Now, what about large single figures, like hill giants–since you can’t remove figs as the ‘unit’ takes damage, how do you track it?
September 29th, 2006 at 5:35 pm
For the giant hill I try to guess…
You have to score at the same time (the same dice roll) a number of hit (let say 3 hit?), otherwise the giant will not die nor will be wounded. I think…
September 29th, 2006 at 8:48 pm
I’d still be curious to know why 3 different “hit” faces are required (red, green, blue) and why you couldn’t just go with one generic “hit” face and two blanks. It would be much simpler for the player to parse; in C&C: Ancients, because my brain is small and the symbols are abstract, I’m mis-parsing hits often enough to be mildly frustrating.
In C&C: Ancients, the only reason for having different colors of hits that I could tell was for the “I Am Spartacus!” card (which for M44 buffs is basically the same as the “Their Finest Hour” card - roll dice and activate matching units). Personally, I think having the elegance of just one hit die face would make it worth re-working that card.
September 29th, 2006 at 9:54 pm
You know Chris, that is a pretty good idea. I have done the same error in CC:A. And know that I will do the same in Battlelore. One hit face, would work just as well. I think.
A question for Richard and Eric I guess - why the different hit faces? Will the mean something at some point in time?
September 29th, 2006 at 10:51 pm
Since we have seen the “I am Spartacus” and “Their Finest Hour” (and even “Call for Reinforcements” in Battle Cry and “Medics & Mechanics” in M44), I assume we will see a card that activates units based on dice rolled.
But now that you mention it, it is kind of strange in Ancients. A single triangle is just as common as a single square. Unlike the 2 INF to ARM ratio on M44. They could have left the die faces blank - or used it as another option.
September 30th, 2006 at 2:44 am
I still am left with two questions.
1 - What makes a unit bold? Are only a few units bold, or
can any unit be bold given specific conditions?
2 - In Ancients there is the ability of some units to flee from
melee. Is this also true in Battlelore?
September 30th, 2006 at 3:53 am
More answers in our next entry
September 30th, 2006 at 5:06 am
Awesome! This game keeps sounding better and better. I luv the colored dice bc it corresponds w/ the unit you are attacking.
I can’t wait to see how they implement magic into the game. I hope it doesn’t make the game too chaotic. Battle Lore hopefully will reward good strategic play.
September 30th, 2006 at 9:16 pm
I agree, you could have gotten away with one hit face. I think the other faces could have been used for other purposes. You could still do this by saying only the red helmet hits units, the blue helmet does, x, and the green helmet does y.
September 30th, 2006 at 9:28 pm
I can’t say I’ve read every comment but I’ll add my still remaining concern on this topic as I have not yet satisfied myself that the die rolling system is the way to go.
It seems to me that a green unit wielding a magic long sword will always swing a specific number of dice [+ or - terrrain] It would be nice/logical if certain weapons/troop types were strong or weak against others. For example mounted troops would have an extra die rolled against them if the opponent had spears. Mounted troops would roll an extra attack die against archers when engaging in melee. These sorts of additions would make contfronting troops with an apropriate unit, not just the most powerful, more tactical and important.
September 30th, 2006 at 11:34 pm
I’m still not sure if I really would like that, because the game woud become kind of a heavy war-game and loose a lot of the lightness ie Mem44 has. I expect a more sophisticated game than Mem44, somehow heavier, but, and I hope that’s the point of DoW too, I don’t want a game where before rolling any dices you have to consider a lot of things (ie this kind of units battles against the other one, that means that bonus but they loos x dices because of that and then you still have not to forget that there’s this possibility and that stuff and so on) I surely hope that Battlelore will be fast to play where all information needed can be known in a glance at a card. And I also hope it will be strategic and units will be as different to play as they look
October 1st, 2006 at 1:34 am
Sounds like BL can become elaborate enough for a ‘lite’ mass combat game.
The C&C system has always been open for players to submit their rules variations/scenaros for everyone to judge and see if they’ed like them for ‘house rules’.
We’ll see if the critics take the time & effort it takes to create….
October 1st, 2006 at 3:07 am
I’m with cero, you do not want to make the game too heavy. Look at Warmaster (the old GW game that Battle Lore is compared to) they do not care what weapons a unit has at all, like Battle Lore does. You just had your attacks, hits you could take, your armor save, and maybe a special rule for a particular unit and that was it. So, I am actually surprised by the level of detail I have seen in Battle Lore so far.
I could see the need for a greater level of detail when our Battle Lore figures begin dungeon diving though!
October 1st, 2006 at 1:33 pm
Knowing all Richard Borg’s games and all DOW games, I presume Battlelore is NOT going to be too “rule heavy”. I’m already an old grognard of wargames and I can say that back in the sixties, seventies and eighties Avalon Hill could have thought you the meaning of “rules heavy”.
No, this wil be quite all right!
October 1st, 2006 at 2:43 pm
Livejapan- Have you played Ancients yet? If not, then you should check it out as a lot is similar there. It is a bit “heavier” than Memoir 44 or Battle Cry because units interact differently. There are more options to consider before every battle. There are things like the Battle Back that you have to concern yourself with. A light foot unit always (with the usual modifiers of course) rolls the same amount of dice in close combat. The hit ratio is always the same. But what you have to take into consideration is the Battle Back of heavy units, the support of enemy units (an enemy unit with 2 adjacent units ignores the first flag/banner). Leaders play a crucial role in the attack. Some units can evade other units. The list goes on and on.
What you get is definitely a “heavier” game as you all have been defining it. But you also get a richer game in that each unit has their own pros and cons. I don’t have as many games under my belt with Ancients, and so I have to play with the cheatsheet next to me. But even with the few games I have, you begin to see the patterns and can start memorizing each units capabilities.
You also have to think the like an ancients commander: soften the enemy with ranged units first, send in your light foot and mounted units to harrass their front lines. Then pull them back to deliver the crushing blow of your heavies. And trust me, even with the dice rolls, you can tell which units can do which things in battle.
So far, BattleLore is shaping up to be more similar to Ancients than Memoir 44. And just like Memoir 44 probably learned alot from Battle Cry, I am sure BatteLore learned a lot from Ancients. So you have a new battle mechanic that has been tested and tried and they can only improve upon it here. Plus add in their own flavor with the fantasy theme.