The Battle Dice
Once your troops have received their orders and completed their move, they can battle. This is done quite simply, by rolling a set of Battle dice.
In battle, the number of dice you roll will vary based upon such factors as: the color of the attacking unit’s banner; the nature of the surrounding terrain; and, in certain situations, a variety of other factors - weapon type of the attacking unit’s figures, effects of a Lore card, etc…
The Bonus Strike symbol increases the odds of this Short Sword inflicting casualties on enemy units, especially those on foot!
A simple glance at the dice rolled will tell you all there is to know about the outcome of that particular combat: Lore may be collected, Hits scored, and Retreats resolved.
The Battle Dice Summary card
For each helmet rolled whose color matches the banner color of your target, a hit is scored and a figure removed; for each flag rolled, a Retreat move inflicted; and for each Lore symbol rolled, Lore tokens may be collected or a Lore effect triggered.
One interesting side-effect is that, in Lore adventures, not rolling the colored helmets, bonus strike symbols or retreat flags you hoped for in battle is not necessarily as bad as it may first seem. If you consistently miss your targets, odds are you will soon be flush with Lore!
Other Languages:
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:24 pm
It’s getting more and more interesting - question: What’s exactly a Bonus strike?
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:27 pm
Does a red helmet also count as a hit against green and blue units?
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:43 pm
Colored helmets only count as hits against units of a same banner color. So Green on green, Blue on blue, etc…
A Bonus strike is simply an increased odd of hitting a target (whenever the Bonus Strike symbol is applicable, usually as a result of using a certain weapon under certain conditions).
For instance, when using a Short sword, all Bonus Strikes symbols rolled count as hits against the target (except for one Bonus strike symbol in each roll, which is ignored if rolled against a Mounted unit). The Long Sword has greater reach, and hits on all Bonus Strikes rolled, no matter what.
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:49 pm
So how does Battlelore account for targets that are harder to kill if red/green/blue all have the same 1/6 chance of occuring?
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:07 pm
@ SteveB
The chance is equal per dice, but probably the red units may use more battle dice than green & blue units. So the chance is increased for higher ranked/trained units.
@ Eric
May you choose which weapon you use at combat or is it predefined?
I’m getting curious about the lore cards…
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:10 pm
OK, I see a little of the answer to my question:
a short sword hits a unit on 2/6. results…the appropriate helmet and the shield.
Except the first shield doesn’t count against mounted, so it lowers the odds (in a way I can’t easily calcualte…it depends on the number of shields rolled.)
A longsword will always hit on 2/6.
In Mem ‘44, “wounds” are tracked by the minis themselves. An infantry unit can take 4 hits since it has 4 figs. But what about the big single figs, like the hill giant and earth elemental…can they only take one hit or will there be a new method to track hits on them?
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:13 pm
@Zymosis…number of dice rolled is attacking pwr. How do units increase their defence?
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:20 pm
As a quick answer. Looking at the section titled “The Troops” we get
Green = 2 battle dice
Blue = 3 battle dice
Red = 4 battle dice
with the introduction of weapons, we have gone deeper than Memoir 44 already. From Eric’s coments, it seems there are at least Shortswords and Longswords. We can speculate and say there will probably also be Crossbows and Polearms / Spears of some kind ?
Would it be fair to say that the armour is represented in the troop quality level ?
I’m curious about the Lore Cards / Tokens too. Do we have to wait until next Thursday for more info ?
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:29 pm
I do think that DoW has made one mistake in the graphic design with this game. The different colors are represented by the same image on the dice and by the same (of the two) images on the unit banners. This means that the color-blind will not be able to easily play this game and it makes it just a little harder for instant recognition for everyone else. I know from playing C&C: Ancients that having the different colors represented by different symbols aids in quick recognition; in that game, the colors on dice and units are symbolized by red squares, blue triangles, and green circles, which is a better idea in my opinion. I’m a bit surprised they didn’t think of this, as it using different pictures or symbols for different colors on cards and dice is a feature of many DoW games.
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:31 pm
SteveB: This system for dice is similar to the one in Command & Colors: Ancients, and at first it does seem counterintuitive that units are equally easy to hit, even though red units presumably are wearing heavier armor than green units.
But after playing C&C:A for a bit, you find that it does produce the desired effect. I’m assuming that like in C&C:A, Battlelore will have a “battle back” rule, where if you attack someone in melee and don’t kill them or force them to retreat, they get to attack back. So if a green unit (2 dice) fights a red unit (4 dice), the green unit will usually come away from the fight with much more damage, even though each die has the same chance of hitting.
And like with C&C:A, I would assume that some particularly tough units will have special rules to reflect their toughness, such as ignoring the first hit against them in each attack, or no bonus strikes count against them.
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:32 pm
@SteveB
I was also wondering how you can defense. In memoir44 it was not possible for defense (except “Ambush” is a sort of defense). I don’t know if they are going to change this.
When I saw the dice the first time, somehow I thought that the “possible bonus strike” was a shield for defence purpose. Ow i was wrong
Maybe it is only possible for special units to defend itself. Or when attacking a hill giant a certain number of hits at one time is required, so that the unit doesn’t have to defend.
Eric should know more about it
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:38 pm
Zymosis: I’m sure that Eric will be giving us the official word in due time, but if Battlelore works like C&C:A (and I bet it does), then after any melee attack, if the defender hasn’t been eliminated or retreated then the defender gets to battle back with a normal melee attack.
If you only know the system from Memoir ‘44, it is worth looking at the rules for Command & Colors: Ancients; they are posted at http://www.gmtgames.com/living_rules/CC%202ndEditionRules_1_.pdf. What we have heard so far about Battlelore sounds like a blend of the two, with plenty of new stuff as well (like the whole lore system).
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:39 pm
There seems to be something wrong with the link in my previous message and I can’t edit it; try this link instead: http://www.gmtgames.com/living_rules/living_rules.html#cca
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:45 pm
Thnx, I’ll have a look at it to get a better feeling for the system. Memoir44 is the only C&C system I’ve played yet.
The correct link is: http://www.gmtgames.com/living_rules/CC%202ndEditionRules_1_.pdf
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:52 pm
The lore symbol on the die reminded me of the similar mechanism in Dreamblade, where rolling the special symbol means that you can activate your special abilities (spells).
September 22nd, 2006 at 6:01 pm
I have to agree with Bill, our color-blind friends will not be happy with the dice.
It seems to me that if the helmet theme was to be kept, that the different colors could sport different helmet types. the red/elite units could have had an ornate helfwt similar to the helmet die face in Ancients. Green could have had something less protective - say just the helmet with no face mask. And blue could keep what is there now.
However, I doubt they could stop production at this point of not only the dice, but the reference cards, the rulebook, and any other items that may show the dice.
This may have to be something they fix and add into the major expansions for next year - similar to GMT updating their dice in Expansion 1 and the reprint of the base game.
September 22nd, 2006 at 6:05 pm
@SteveB & @Zymosis:
I believe the system doesn’t really account for “individual defense,” as it is traditionally thought of. Sans special abilities, a Red Foot Unit and a Green Foot Unit will have the same “defense”. Not having to have defense rolls speeds up the game.
However, there may be some weapons that only bonus strike when used against a certain color (say green) instead of a type of unit. Also, note that each of the weapons we have seen (the Common Bow and the Short Sword) have a line that reads “Damage: Per Unit’s Banner Color”. There may be some weapons that can’t hit certain type of colors, or some Weapons or Lore Effects where rolling a red or blue also counts as a hit against green (Note that those are speculation… I have no inside info).
So, while a unit doesn’t have “defense” per say, by varying the effectiveness of the attack, a defense can be accounted for by the offense capabilities and special abilities. I hope that made sense.
September 22nd, 2006 at 6:06 pm
The slightly different helmets… great idea. and makes so much sense.
September 22nd, 2006 at 6:41 pm
Yeah, Mem ‘44 is my only C&C experience…C&C:A is on my wishlist, though. The battleback mechanic does seem to address the defense concept nicely–here’s hoping it’s in Battlelore. Also, good point shadowTerp about Damage being listed on the weapon card.
September 22nd, 2006 at 8:40 pm
Well, good evening everyone!
It’s your favourite troll here again.
I know I wasn’t all that productive last time, I’ll try to be a little more so this time.
I know I’ll be in the minority, but after ancients I kinda hoped Mr. Borg would conjure up something more original than just “memoaar” fantasy, though I guess it would be better to call it Ancients fantasy..
Enyway, I’ll keep up with this blog just to see if it get’s interesting enough.. I guess it depends much of those mystical lore cards and whether Mr. Borg came up with some juicy rules for different races.
By the way, Sherlock here is not amused yet. Prove us wrong Mr. Borg.
September 22nd, 2006 at 9:06 pm
@Ehh?–I’ll bite…
Fact: Battlelore is one of the C&C series of games, so it will bear striking resemblence to BattleCry, Mem ‘44, and C&C:A. Each one is an derivative or evolution of the previous, not just a repackaging with new trappings. I don’t think it’s fair for you to write it off as Mem: Fantasy.
Observation: it appears you are do not like fantasy or at least are not inspired by it. If that’s the case, I doubt Battlelore will impress you despite its merits. Many of us love fantasy and this is the C&C game we’ve been waiting for. While ‘fantasy’ may not be an original genre, it is a popular one.
You may be better served by continuing to play the C&C variants you like for a couple more years until a newer derivative that suits your tastes comes along.
Question: what would you like to see?
September 22nd, 2006 at 10:19 pm
I believe Richard Borg will do for fantasy what he has already done successfully for the American Civil War, WWII and Ancients. Not sure this has been answered before, but what colour border is on the cards?
September 22nd, 2006 at 10:54 pm
Ozvortex - From other pictures we have seen, it looks like the card borders will be white.
@Ehh? - Sounds like you are waiting on the wrong game.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:24 pm
*drool*
September 23rd, 2006 at 2:22 am
cards border is white indeed.
eric
September 23rd, 2006 at 3:57 am
Has anyone heard whether the troops will have point values to allow players to pick an army based on an equal number of points a la WHFB? Hopefully this will be the case. /hope
September 23rd, 2006 at 4:45 am
I think Eric has said in an interview that there will be no point values for units at this point in time.
September 23rd, 2006 at 8:43 am
Eric mentioned in the forum, that a kind of point system won’t be available in the rules, but that DoW will publish something similar next year - obvoiusly far more balanced than a simple point-system- read the posts in the ‘Point-system? - Entry in the official battleore - forum
September 23rd, 2006 at 3:04 pm
Some quick questions,
One, will the Hill Giant and the other monsters have a banner?
Two, If you do turn out to be a big Battle Lore fan/fanatic and do want to pick up one of each product released, what kind of price points are we looking at?
Three, will the war council have figures on the board and participate in the battles? If so, do they have banners?
September 24th, 2006 at 4:24 am
I have some Questions as well…
Im not sure if this has been addressed but, I was wondering about the summary cards, how do they work (what i mean is since there are 42 of them will there be enough for each player to look at or just one set) let me clairify, (if the magic number is 42 cards) will there be 21 summary cards for each player or 42 different summary cards like in memoir ‘44?
Thank you for your time…
September 24th, 2006 at 5:10 am
I like everything I have seen so far. But I have a few comments/questions.
First of all, I love BattleCry and have owned two sets since the first week of its release (and a friend of mine is even pictured on the cover). M44 does it for me, too. I have come to appreciate the differing mix of units for each nationality.
But, I can honestly say that a fantasy C&C Borg game is what I have always sought. I am $1,500-investor in Warhammer Fantasy Battles who got burned years ago by GW and has been keeping his miniatures in hiding ever since.
I love the smaller scale of the Borg projects so far. But I haven’t seen enough to get a feel for the sides/opponents in this project. It screams open-ended. I’m not sure what direction the different races for Battlelore are headed.
Will Battlelore gameplay be more race-open-ended or will a player be able to field an entire army, of say elves or orcs? Will players be able to develop elite units over a period of battles? Will you guys be releasing variably sized/priced expansions or will the expansions be on par with M44 so far? Do you guys have a less-abtract campaign system/map in mind?
September 24th, 2006 at 6:34 am
Khess-
I think Eric has mentioned before that there are 21 summary cards per side.
September 24th, 2006 at 9:11 pm
This makes me happy… My friend and I play memoir and he has to have ALL of the Summary cards on his side (luckly I dont need them any more =P) and that kind of got me… with all of the information in this game it would be good to have summary cards for both sides. I still need a little more info before I preorder though… Thanks ColtsFan.
September 24th, 2006 at 9:40 pm
Pickk, what got you with WHFB? I am also heavily invested, but the many editions and higher and higher prices got ot me. Battle Lore seems like what I have been looking for to. Paint if you want to (not required to play in tourneys), pre-assembled minis, plays in an hour or so, and plays on a kitchen table.
Eric, will we see chariots and war machines???
September 24th, 2006 at 9:41 pm
I almost forgot, heroic figures would be cool too.
September 25th, 2006 at 1:58 am
OT for Khess - I have a M’44 summary sheet (all the expansions included) you can download at http://www.headlesshollow.com - you may find it useful.
September 25th, 2006 at 2:49 am
That is a cool summary sheet for M’44. I cannot wait to check out the rest of the site.
Thanks!
September 25th, 2006 at 6:13 am
I find it amazing how helpful people are on this site… I might buy BattleLore just for the online subscription Number! = ) Which brings up an interesting question… If i have a subscription for say… SoC or BattleLore can i still access the downloads and scenarios for my Memoir ‘44 game? (i apologize and realize that this is terribly off topic) thanks
September 25th, 2006 at 2:10 pm
I’m one of those “Colorblind Fans” and I’m happy to say that DoW made the RIGHT choice in color SHADES. While I agree that it may have been more helpful to use different symbols or to avoid the red/green combo, I can safely say as a person w/a good amount of red/green colorblindness that the SHADES of red and green are substantially different.
(I say “good amount of colorblindness” because whenever the doctor holds up that book of colored dots and asks me what number I see, I just want to punch him in the face.)
I mean that the LIGHT green is distinguishable from the DARK red. Where most companies screw up is in using the same shade for both (i.e. a light red and a light green, or a dark red and a dark green) which leaves me helpless to determine which is which. I feel that DoW made a good choice in that if the color is confused, at least the lightness/darkness cannot be. (Even the most colorblind person should be able to see it as differing shades of grey). Luckily, blue is VERY rarely affected by colorblindness.
September 25th, 2006 at 7:37 pm
You sure they didn’t use the dark geen and light red combo? Just kidding.
September 25th, 2006 at 7:49 pm
Monday’s half over…I need a new update!
I’m hooked…I’ve never had a substance dependency, but I can only imagine that this is what it’s like!
September 25th, 2006 at 8:44 pm
You said it SteveB! I hope the next update is about Lore.
September 25th, 2006 at 11:12 pm
Count me in, I’m ready to.
September 26th, 2006 at 12:44 am
Yes, of course (about the web card access codes). Your account remembers all the web codes you enter, not just the last one! Otherwise, we’d have a lot of befuddled customers.
eric
September 26th, 2006 at 3:04 am
Funny word… befuddled… thank you Mr. Eric.
September 26th, 2006 at 1:34 pm
hey, when comes the next update?
September 26th, 2006 at 10:10 pm
Thats it?
September 27th, 2006 at 1:17 am
next update should go live tomorrow, and another one on friday. We’re going through a major hosting platform change later this week and early next, so our updates won’t be as frequent as we’d like until that transition is over.
September 27th, 2006 at 6:21 am
Hey Eric i was just wondering if we’ll be able to buy the bases of the figures seperately as i would like to get some figures to play out crusader scenarios and by the sounds of it there wont be any crusader type wars or figures represented .Also i was hoping that in the updates we coud get a close look at all the minis that come with the base game.
September 27th, 2006 at 6:32 am
Sam,
At this point there is no plan to sell bases separately from figures (though I am not clear whether you meant the bases,the banners, or both).
Remember me once we’ve gone through the major items (there’s still a lot to cover: we’ve only tackled some of the basics up to now. The more advanced medieval stuff, and all of the Lore related things are yet to come), and I’ll make sure we post a compendium of the figures that come with the game.
September 27th, 2006 at 10:07 am
thanx eric
September 27th, 2006 at 11:09 am
Good to hear, but where is the next update ?